First off, thank you VERY much to the owners and contributors of this website! I have read over the main page and just finished with “Step 1” of the panic program. I must say that it was very enlightening and encouraging to understand that I am not “the only one”! More so the “avoidance” scenarios that unfortunately I have fell victim to and been a reluctant member of for the last 5+ years. Also the help in differentiating some one that has Panic Attacks than someone that has Agoraphobia such as myself. With that in mind, I just had an experience today (a trip to the dentist to get several teeth pulled) that made me so uncomfortable I did some research and found your website. What a blessing! Up until now, nothing has worked for me other than self-medication (alcohol) only to capture fleeting glimpses of feeling good in my own little world. I am a very productive member of society and in fact own several of the top selling collectible coin & bullion firms on eBay that isn’t a problem. The problem I have is not being able to do things as a family man should. I rarely leave the house, I even more rarely do anything that is enjoyable in a normal since and I know that is certainly putting a strain on my marriage as well as family life with my children and relatives. So far everything you have said about being agoraphobic really just nailed it for me!!! In that I will continue with the program set forth and would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks again… David

Herb,

This is my first message back to any post on here as I just joined a few days ago. I do understand you’re feeling uneasy speaking in public and as the post below by a professional stated it is not uncommon at all! For example my wife that is both a Boy Scout and Girl Scout troop leader that I deem as “normal” also gets the chills/ sweats/ rapid heart rate when needed to speak in front of an auditorium filled with people. In all honesty I couldn’t even imagine myself doing that as I would just pass out thinking about it. From reading and understanding what I know about panic disorders, the best thing to do if not wanting them is repeated exposure. For example the more times you make these speeches and frequently, the less you will have any problem with doing them. J In that same aspect, my family and friends say that what I do for a living would freak them out moving tens of thousands of dollars in and out every week as a retail seller.  The thing is, I do it every day so it is NO BIG DEAL. However ask me to go to the dentist or go to any mall filled with people or even a dinner out with the family or friends and “forget it” “instant panic attack” just thinking about it!!! Avoidance kicks in and everything else this program tries to teach! By your post, you are obviously extremely smart and have a well above average IQ! The only unfortunate thing is by being that way one tends to “overthink” everything that is also a trigger for panic attacks.  I am going to work through this program in hope that it can help and hope you will do the same. Best wishes… David 

Thank you both very much for the replies/ help. After thinking what you both said over, you are both absolutely correct!!! It is not so much about the “situation” it is more so about “control” or “wanting to do something” vs “made or having to do something”! For example the dentist scenario; I was told a year or so ago that my teeth need all to be pulled and get dentures. As I was in excruciating pain nearly every day with two of the teeth for years, I was happy to hear that and told them “YES LETS GET THOSE TWO OUT” no problem and no pain and was so happy I agreed to get them out afterwards.  Now that those two painful teeth are gone, this recent visit (6 months latter) that I should have gone and had 4 more pulled was canceled by me due to a full blown panic attack. The teeth they want to pull next don’t even hurt. I know they need to go and have to work around what my health insurance allows per year for extractions. In other words as you both said, I lost “control” of that situation and is what spurred this last full blown panic attack and canceled the appointment!!! It was so freaking bad lasting almost an hour, I could barely walk (spaghetti legs), tried to talk to a few business clients on the phone and couldn’t, etc.. After it was all over, I was mentally and physically “wiped out” for the remainder of the day almost lethargic & even into the next day! QUESTION; is that normal to be “wiped out” after a full blown attack?

I will continue to work through this program. I know dr prescribed drugs can be of great help but want to try it first drug free. I do appreciate your suggestions and any help you can offer!

Sincerely…   David

Again thanks a lot for all the help! I am starting to understand my panic attacks (why they happen/ triggered) and the Agoraphobia. The way I see it (and your help understanding) our brains are no different than a computers CPU. In that whatever input (programing it gets) will base the outcome of anything tasked of it. May sound weird unless you know how computers work?  In effect, I am finding out that the human brain is not so different than a super computer. Both are based on memory & programing. When we as humans have had bad results based on past experience’s (like Davit said), our brains tend to categorize them and remember them as a priority! For example if you type in any key word via Google, Windows Search for Files, etc., the result will be “priorities” based solely on past search references and results as it’s priority! The same can be said about an onset of Panic attack. So what happened last time you started feeling this way? If like me a little common nervousness that most anyone would experience in the same situation was the trigger!  The remembering, the “bad programing”, “the full blown panic attack from the past”, etc.. We are ALL hard wired like a computer to skip over any rationality and go immediately in thinking to a negative place in the past in our own minds! As I have read, this scenario could have been of great use via our ancestors past but now a days can be more so a burden (fight or flight) responses that are certainly unwelcome!

Something to “think about” as like most that overthink everything that may be reading this as I do? Do you know there are a TON of people that PAY good money to have the same experience as we suffers get for free? J For example those folks that are into crazy stuff like skydiving, bungee jumping or mountain climbing. Doing so they are all trying to get the same adrenaline kick that you and most reading this can get just by getting on a bus or metro link or in my case just leaving the house for an hour or so?

Just something to think about for now. Looking forward in continuing this program.  Will be on Step 4.0 Monday and am certain it will be the most challenging part? 

Davit & JayDee,

Thank you both VERY MUCH again for your well placed advice! Sorry if I blew through the first couple of steps/ sections via this program rather fast as most I already knew because of similar “buttered” programs I have tried in the past. Believe me, when it comes to the end of section 3 starting on section 4, a HUGE slowdown will be realized! Section 4 dealing with “Exposure Work”, I will have to take in baby steps!!! But will continue via very hard work but at the same time not doing so much so quickly the results will only add to or reinforce the negativity already well implanted in my mind! If I may ask, as I have read conflicting theories, is Blast in your face exposure therapy confronting what one is the most afraid of in your opinions “the way to go” or a more subtle approach gradually realizing ones fears are not realistic or unfounded the better way? Perhaps level 4 will answer this but just asking your “personal” opinion first. Thanks…   David

Thanks all for your help and “caring”. As I was unsure of what a “type A” personality meant, I went ahead and took an online cognitive “test”. The results are shown below:  Your interactions with others and your day-to-day existence are heavily tinged with impatience and hostility. When you're stressed or frustrated, you may lash out at others or end up stewing in anger or frustration. Your elevated score may put you at risk because a high amount of this aspect of the TABP can not only be extremely harmful to relationships, it is also very damaging to your health. While originally it was thought that global Type A Behavior Pattern was the culprit in coronary heart disease, research now shows that hostility, impatience and the other related traits are likely the real source of the problem. Based on your results here, you may be at an increased risk of heart disease. Keep in mind however, that there are other causes unrelated to the TABP, such as poor diet, lack of exercise, and smoking, among other things.

All in all, I answered the 50+ questions as honestly as I could. In all, I cant disagree with anything said above other than I do desire to be helpful to others. Perhaps a control issue? And then NOT when fully in control via any issue or circumstance the "Panic" sets up and in again and again! The "what if's" simply take over and rule!!!

Simply put, I am an over thinker and while that serves well in business, does not do sell well when it comes to family and friends. As advised, not only do I look froward to the next section but will do so as advised in gradual exposure therapy. 

Honestly am very much looking forward to being a man of respect like I was once instead of just a meal ticket $$$ provider like I am now... Thanks again...  David

Thanks again for all the positive advice! Sorry I have been away from the computer for the last couple of days as this time of year is very difficult for me for several reasons and more recently with a new wife and children “try” my best not to think about the past. However I do understand and with your and this websites help, I must deal with it and move forward!

First off, I shouldn’t even be alive right now at age 50 as I have had a serious VSD since birth. All through school I had to spend my holiday season in the hospital on Christmas break getting tested via cardiac cats (a big deal back then), etc so as not to have to take days off from normal school attendance or family summer vacation time.

Add to that my father died on Christmas Eve 1996 virtually drowning in and pucking up his own blood from esophagus cancer as it grew into a main artery while at home. He fought a mighty battle with it for years with Chemo and surgeries but lost.   Turned out the cancer was stronger than the strongest man I ever knew was! My dad!!!

I have to remind myself of the “positives” and think this will be a good aspect of venturing on with this program if I can just let this all sink into my brain and let the past go!!! In other words, being lucky to even be alive doesn’t mean one has to crawls up in a “safe zone corner” like I have done for years now.  In fact one of my most exhilarating and proudest moments recently was a trip to the dentist (my worst fear) about 8 months ago to get some teeth pulled. I imagined the worst like back when I was 16 (34 years ago) getting my impacted bottom wisdom teeth pulled and the excruciating pain afterwards and the intense fear as I knew I needed a couple more molars pulled recently. Panic attack 101!!! Then after it was done a few months ago absolutely no pain other that a little prick from a local anesthetic. I was so elevated after I left the dentist office, I was ecstatic! And couldn’t even answer myself “why” did I put up with these three teeth hurting so badly I couldn’t hardly eat for the past 5+ years???  

As mentioned by JayDee & Davit, it is all about the brains ways of “prioritizing[DK1] ”! Negative thoughts based on past experiences are priority over positive ones subconsciously. For me at least, this is the “trigger” of full blown uncontrollable panic attacks then avoidance!

Again I look forward to the next session of “Exposure Work”. I honestly didn’t want to start this via such a “negative time of year” but now that it is over, looking very forward to moving on with this program!!!!

Hope this can be helpful? It is a email to my wife as a reply to her's involving yesterdays Christmas holiday.  It is funny in a way but does involve a lot of issues that you talk about...

I enjoyed it as well! Very much so!!!

I also liked and can put to use ALL of my gifts and your food was “off the hook” excellent!!!

I must admit I was a little nervous, tense and apprehensive about the whole deal over the last couple days as I tend to overthink everything as you know. Good in business, not so good in personal relationships!

For example thinking about how my mom and Dustin just generally don’t get along, not knowing how me and Kevin/ Amanda would get along, etc.. Or even Garrett & Dustin for that matter?

Likened I get when I am “drunk” that makes you uneasy, the above mentioned people can do or say things “perfectly straight” that makes me cringe!!!!

Even though things went OK, I did note a few things that were said and done that THANK GOD the receiving person just kind of ignored or didn’t acknowledge!!! LOL

·         My mom basically telling Dustin to his face he was gaining weight, looked fat and needed to start exercising more. Dustin DID get pissed as his face turned red but didn’t say anything and just kinda walked off. J

·         Dustin picking on his feet for several minutes before going to get his plate of food while I was talking to him. I even asked him to wash his hands and he said “I already did”. NOT after he was picking at his feet.

·         Dustin telling Garrett to grow up. Garrett was standing behind him and said “I wouldn’t talk” and with his hand compared his height to Dustin’s that is well over 6” shorter than Garrett (Dustin didn’t see that) LOL

·         My mom basically giving “pocket change” to Hannah as one of her gifts that my mom thought would be the “greatest gift of the night” for whatever reason???

·         Kevin talking **** about the company he now works for “Schnucks” in what they pay, hours and how they treat employees. He is “lucky to even have a ****ing job”, I had to bite my tong there!!!!!!!

·         Back to my mom, asking Kevin and Amanda, ““so when are the two of you going to get married? I would like to see that before I die”” LMFAO I don’t know that one was funny to me but kev handled it nicely just saying “we are working on it”. J

·         Many more perhaps trivial things that you perhaps didn’t pay attention to as I know you were busy?

However, ALL IN ALL, everyone did a pretty good job ignoring each other’s stupidness as I knew would transpire. I don’t know perhaps you and I did the best by choosing to stay out it all?

The only thing I said and rightfully so was to ask my mom to “calm down a bit” on her nonstop talking and commenting and asking Dustin to wash his hands after picking on his feet for 5+ minutes. Neither did what I asked so whatever. I got my plate before he did so no biggy here. Just don’t ask me to eat any leftovers. LOL

Reason that I am telling you all this is that people are people and just roll with it when they act stupid and do foolish things. Don’t get so uptight like you do some mornings with me when I act stupid and everything will end up working out great AS A WHOLE just like the Christmas party did!!! J

Thanks for listening, glad it is all over and am looking forward to going back working with my Panic Attack Group and having a much better, more fun and enjoyable New Year!!!!

Dave

From: Robbin 
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2014 12:33 AM
To: 'Dave G.'
Subject: THANKYOU!!
Importance: High

Thank you dear for an AWESOME Christmas!!! I very much enjoyed having us all together today. And thank you for my awesome gifts, loved both of them very much!!!

Thank you, thank you, thank you…..etc.

I do love you!!!

Me J