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14 years ago 0 +0 / -0 3043

Goofy,

Your writing is perfectly clear and communicative - nothing poor about your English at all.

We've never spoken about it, but I'm pretty sure my partner would feel the same way as me about crying in front of the boys, and I don't feel that there's a different standard on that because she's a woman. We're not an emotionally 'naked ' family, never have been, and our families that we grew up in were just the same.

The program? I started it when I first came here but got hung up right at the start on the mood tracking. Found it made me feel worse, and it seemed that I was manipulating my moods to get a nice big fat 'depressed' score every day so I'd feel justified and genuine being here. Any sense to that?

So now I'm not doing the program at all. It's obviously a valuable resource to many, but the format and systematic nature of it doesn't suit me individually, and didn't stimulate/motivate me. It's like quantum mechanics - the acts of observing and recording have an effect on that which is being observed/recorded. In my case, a negative effect - the need to confirm to myself that I am suffering from depression, not just a useless, miserable lummox. And setting myself formal goals invariably leads to my not keeping to them, and feeling as if I've failed. So I come to this site solely for the forums.

I'm typing this at work, just before the start of the working day. Nine o'clock is rolling around, so I'd better go paste on my game face and get to it.

14 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1044

I think we agree but was wondering if it's okay for your partner to cry in front of the children?

I understand about the anxiety related to eating. I hope you can formulate a plan with it as you have with the other things.

I remember your telling us that you journal through your poetry. I do forget things quickly. So forgive me when you have to repeat something. I did read some of your poetry and liked it alot.

I was going to at least live up to my education with that last post, but the Kentucky dialect came shining through. I laughed and made the comment about my poor English. lol, I reckon it don't matter as long as we can understand each other. No need to edit, rewrite here, let it spew forth. I hardly think anything you write would be inarticulate.

Pete, you give to me with every post. As I give you feedback and you respond and vise versa, it makes me think about my own issues. It helps me to realize I am not alone in feeling the way I feel. It gives me insight into why depression works on us like it does. Having this exchange of posts helps me as much as it does you. You don't owe me anymore thanks than I owe you.

I am wondering which session you are on in this program and if your therapist works or looks at your work with you? Mine is getting more involved with it, but it seems to prompt conversations re: the issues. Just curious.

look forward to hearing from you!

14 years ago 0 +0 / -0 3043

Oh, it's so late here now, even for me (02.15 a.m.) so I'll try and be quick for now.

Thanks again for the great advice and empathy. I'll have to digest it properly, but a couple of things. I hate sexual stereotyping too, so when I wrote that I'm Dad and supposed to be strong, I could just as well have written 'their parent'. My male gender isn't really relevant there.

And the eating? Well, I do eat, as we have a family meal every evening. But apart from that not really, and it's become, as I indicated, a perverse source of pride. And of course I find the social side of eating impossible. I won't eat out unless I really can't avoid it, certainly wouldn't go to a friend's house for dinner or have any round to our house to eat (not that I have any friends, but my partner does and because of me she never has them here). If I lived on my own, I would live on next to nothing. I know it's necessary for living, and I'm not just living for me.

When I have strong emotions or feel really weirded-out, I try and write a poem. It's usually inarticulate spew, but the process of writing can bring me back to myself - Pete the 'writer' takes over and I start editing it, correcting phrases, rewriting..........

I was going to be brief. Too many words in my head. Thanks for listening. i hope some day I can give back to you.

14 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1044

Pete, Sounds like you've got a plan. I didn't realize the reason you stayed up is for "pete" time. That is important. lol, I live alone, never considered needing that time. The everyother day thing makes sense to me with the staying up late or stay up every night just not so long, then you'd have time everyday - that seems important to you! And uh, geez I don't think either of us is very comfortable discussing it, but at some point, there was physical contact as you've indicated you have children and she must find you attractive to have married you and have children with you.

The coffee thing is good an achievable goal, keep the cigarettes for now and I'm like you what a self-esteem boost it would be!!!! I am glad you find peace and solitude in the public shrine, no pressure to converse, sounds ideal and it's doing something for you and something that makes you feel good - go fer it.

I understand the crying as I too have done that. I don't do that in front of my son either. However, the stereotype of men being strong and all that - phooey! I hate those stereotypes. This is the 21st century - I wish we could evolve beyond that.

I keep that to myself. When I roll in agony in bed crying and feel the pain, clutch my chest, and expressions as if I were in physical pain as well as shaking and sobbing uncontrollably. The last time I did it though (a couple of weeks ago), when I stopped crying, I started writing - what visual images did I have when I was clutching my chest, etc. Have you ever tried doing that. I was amazed at the one word bursts that I kept coming up with. Then I started typing the feelings (those that I could identify) that went with the thoughts and took it to my therapist. Wow, I always thought I was crying for nothing - but it's there. I know there is more there inside waiting to spew forth, but right now, I've got enough emotions rolling around in my brain and now that I got them don't know what the hell to do with them. Any suggestions - when you start feeling instead of thinking - where do the feelings go - I want them to go away but how do I put them there????

Anyway, back to you. I do think the issues with your self-image are important and should be addressed by your therapist. Now, you did NOT mention any goal regarding eating or how you were going to address that issue. Didn't think I'd notice did you? ah ha, I'm quite the detective. lol

It really doesn't matter if eating interests you or not, does it? (not trying to sound like a smart a**) It is necessary to sustain life and you indicated how much your children mean to you.... I know my son is my motivation for alot of things (btw, he's 30 and I have a grandchild, lol) and he still motivates me. The grandchild and daughter-in-law as well, but nothing like my baby to make me think twice sometimes about what I need to do. So what's a goal re: eating and/or a something that can motivate you to eat more than one meal a day? What about feeling better? your kids, your partner, your job, your writing, your aspirations????? I dunno Pete, what could it be?

Sounds like you got it prioritized and the self-image things I do agree need to go with the therapist. However, you got to eat to get to work on those things! And do these other things! And spend time with your partner and children.

lol, reading back over this, I should have used my better English and grammer skills, but I think you can hang with me, huh?

14 years ago 0 +0 / -0 3043

[last post was too long and got cut off]

...beautiful golden Buddha in the shrine room calls me in my mind.

Prioritise? Well, I can do the coffee, and try to drag myself back through the doors of the Buddhist centre. Should do me some good. The whole body image/eating thing I think I need to work on deeper with my therapist. And maybe at least try to stay up so late only on alternate nights. That should help the physical intimacy side of things as well, though that's assuming that my partner wants that.

14 years ago 0 +0 / -0 3043

Goofy

Thanks as always for the wisdom. You're so smart and reasonable it makes me feel humbled. On the crying thing - I don't cry very often at all. When I do, it's uncontrollable and violent. Like a howl of something otherwise inexpressible at the whole universe. Last time I broke down and let myself do it I had gone to bed early for once (in the evenng, rather than my daytime sleeping to escape from the world when I ring up work with a 'migraine') and just sobbed and sobbed into my pillow, choking the sounds so my sons in the next room would not hear. I'm Dad, y'know, I'm supposed to be strong. I've told them about my depression but I can't frighten them with inarticulate sounds of despair.

I know I can't click my fingers and achieve these goals all at once - that is just wishful thinking. We are talking about years and years of habit here. And, to be honest, though I know what I should do, I don't feel truly motivated, not deep down.

On the sleeping - the reason I stay up so late every night is because I feel I need the time alone. I've been doing it for so long now that I only truly 'wake up' at about ten in the evening. I spoke to my therapist on this and she agreed that time alone is precious and important to me. The only problem is that I have to be up at 7 in the morning to go to work, and often struggle to stay awake through the working day. Certainly don't give of my best at work. If I can reestablish my meditation practice, that graveyard slot will be an ideal time to do it.

Smoking - like yourself, my therapist says I have more pressing issues, and the changes - physiological and mental - attendant on a serious attempt to quit are maybe not wise to take on now. Then again, if I succeeded it would do my self-esteem a bunch of good.

Eating just doesn't interest me, that's the trouble, and I like to feel free of the compulsion to eat. Makes me feel in control, somehow 'superior'. It's not a weight issue - I'm not overweight , though hideously flabby and out of condition. No idea what I weigh.

Appearance too I don't really care about. I'm ugly and ungainly, squat and ungraceful, so there's no point as I see it in trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I look in the mirror and wonder how I can take such a horrible face out in public. How do I have the nerve? Well, of course I have no choice. I've hated my body since I was a child, very short in stature and continually teased about it. Unfit and non-athletic, humiliated and ashamed of my physical being.

The coffee - that's one I can do. I'm not addicted to coffee, just on reflection I realised that's more or less all I ever drink, which leaves me dehydrated and must contribute to my chronic headaches and anxiety. So I shall alternate coffee with glasses of water or some vile herbal brew if I want something hot. Shouldn't be a problem.

I'm an uptight Englishman, so I'm embarrassed to talk any more about the physical contact.

About 10-12 years ago, I regularly went to a lovely Buddhist/meditation centre here in London. I'd like to go there again - I think meditation classes would really help kickstart me again, and I used to find meditating in a silent group quite powerful. And there's social contact there, but with absolutely no pressure to make conversation. ideal. But I lapsed and slipped and lost the thread years back, and feel frightened to go back. There is the religious/spiritual side to that as well. I do believe I have the need to practice devotion, and the beautifu

14 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1044

Pete, You know I learned very recently, it's okay to cry. I know the fear that I have that is associated with crying - if I start, I'll never stop. Do you have that fear too? It's okay to teach your son it's okay to cry (a mistake I made in raising my son - you know hindsight).
I like your plan. Those are some great goals and seem you are addressing your paradigm shift. Which do you think would help you the most NOW. Which one is going to address the most immediate problem or issue? Which one is hurting you physically the most - seems they are all health related. Physical, mental, emotional. They are all changing habits - we can't do it all at once - so easy does it (stolen saying from any 12 step program including Emotions Anonymous - EA).
I can't decide which is most important - but I think you should prioritize your list. Sounds like your therapist got ya kick started by helping you identify some issues that might be what you need to put first. She/He can help you work on the valuing your body and you can also do that through this program - they(therapy and CBT) work well together with issues like that (I've found wiht me they do anyway).
**I didn't have the problem with lack of sleep - I over sleep - not perfect now, when I go down past a certain point - find myself back there - but now I know I can get back out.
**Stop smoking - I've put that off and surprisingly enough, even though my pdoc acknowledges as a physician that is a goal I should have, says I have more pressing issues - may not be the case for you.
**Eating more than once a day - do I have to? I can totally relate to this. I don't devalue my body but fear the side effects of the meds I'm taking - So add a mean and congratulate yourself on not skipping one. I read somewhere once it's better to snack up to 8 times a day than to sit down and eat three large meals. Maybe that snacking could help augment that one meal. an apple, carrots, peanut butter, bananas - you know what you like! Something that may be worth checking out.
**Appearance and personal hygiene - that's a tough thing for me to do when I'm down too. But again, I know I feel better when I do, and other people go wow, what happened to you? Going to a funeral? rofl I just keep 'em guessing.
**despising the body - what parts don't you like? Why don't you like them? Is it possible to change the parts you don't like? Is it feasible? I got some "I wish I didn't have's or I wish I did have's but can't relate to despising my body.
**mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm - coffee - I love that stuff- talk about withdrawals I had when I gave it up. I think one should slowly quit coffee over time. I gave it up because it made my anxiety out the roof. You know now I can reward myself with a cup of coffee occasionally now. mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm
**Physical contact - well, I gave up dating or attempting to have a relationship for 4 years. I started dating a man I met some time ago in July. I don't want to sound crass, but that's therapeutic - the uh, physical contact. I betyour partner would like that too.
**Meditation Center - I am relating that to spriituality - it may not be in your case. You know I don't go anywhere and I work on my spirituality at home. I know it would be best if I did, but at least for now, that's a part of my recovery. I am not up to going there - yet. Are there things you can do at home, a place you can set aside for your meditation and your practice.
You are not alone!!!!! Prioritize and then work on one issue at a time - we didn't get here in a day, so let's take it one day at a time (EA again). I think we also have to realize we aren't perfect so if we have a day it doesn't work like it should or we wanted it to, there is always tomorrow and we know we did it once, we can do it again. HOPE!

14 years ago 0 +0 / -0 3043

As always, Goofy, wise and to the point.

I know what I should do, and sometimes I think I will just fix a date and from the moment I wake up that morning wash myself clean and make every change I need to make at once:

stop going to bed at 2 o'clock and only getting 4-5 hours sleep every night
stop smoking
eat more than once a day, every day
stop congratulating myself for every missed meal
start to take some interest in my appearance and personal hygiene
stop despising my body
drink something apart from coffee
start having some physical contact with my partner again
go back to the meditation centre I used to attend and rebuild my practice

I feel like crying now, but my son is sat across the room from me and I mustn't.

14 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1044

Pete, I missed your post dated 11/6/09. I hardly think you sounded like a chrismtas card. However, I did like the way in which you described "the notion of a paradigm shift: "The notion of a paradigm shift, to me, means that I'm standing on new ground, sailing on a new ocean, and I must adjust my expectations of myself accordingly. Maybe celebrate the small things in every day as genuine achievements. Maybe consider myself strong rather than despicable for 'carrying on'. Maybe not mourn what has gone but live with what is here and now, judge more gently or not at all..." Rather poetic but yet so true. And does totally relate to mindfulness.

Now I want to relate that to your next post (maybe a good thing I missed it on the 6th - funny how things work out sometimes).

Hmmm, your therapist said, "it's up to you....". Has it not been up to you all along. Who was taking care of you before, uh, you came along???? (I know - doesn't make sense). I think you are up to the challenge. I think you must adjust your expectations accordingly, consider your self strong, don't judge yourself as much and be sure to celebrate the small things.

I think you and your therapist have hit on some very tough issues - unfortunately issues can be painful. Keep in mind your insight into our paradigm shift and the way we should now look at them. I think it is interesting that you describe the very activites that you need to do as "cozy warm stuff like that". You know cozy warm stuff like that is what keeps me as healthy as I can be (mentally and physically), available for my family, able to work, stay strong (even in the downward spirals).

Lifestyle is a tough issue for those of us with depression. Dang it, we spend enough of our time and energy just trying to cope with the depression; through in some other health issues for good measure and now we got more to do. HOWEVER, I think that a healthy lifestyle is one of the components of coping with depression (hmmm, maybe a paradigm shift for you). I know it was for me when I first realized the healthy things I needed to do for me.

I know you have an awesome mind. I love our discussions, your insight, writing style. The depression is a physical thing which effects our emotions that causes us to behave (or misbehave) in certain ways (maybe by not taking care of ourselves).

I think that it was an eye-opener is a positive thing. After all, if your eyes aren't open to it, if you aren't aware of it, then how can you do anything about it. So, now you've got your eyes open. What's the plan?

Hmmm, I'm rattling today. I hope you can make sense out of this and see that it is all meant as encouragement for you to take care of you. You don't have to be perfect at it.

14 years ago 0 +0 / -0 224

Pete,

Thank you for sharing with us how your visit went. I know you mentioned that what your therapist said "It's up to you..." wasn't quite inspirational, but true. Just remember that you're not in this alone, there are others on here to provide support and encouragement so don't be afraid to reach out when you feel like you need to. We are here for you.

Have you thought about what some of the things you can do to help improve your lifestyle into a healthier one are?

Let us know how you are doing.

Luciana - Health Educator

Reading this thread:

Evolution Health is not a healthcare provider and does not provide medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. If you are currently thinking about or planning to harm yourself or someone else please call 911 or go to the nearest hospital emergency room.

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