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14 years ago 0 1665 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hi Davit:  That's a good example for me because that is what I get, white coat syndrome.  I know it happens because I'm conditioned for it to happen.  I'm not fearful of doctors nor of clinics however, they are a reminder of how sick I was and how frightening it was to be so weak and so close to death (there was a time when they didn't know if I would make it) and how easy it is to go right back there if I don't take good care of myself.  So even with positive self talk, and no fear of doctors etc. I still get it.  What can I do differently?  Any suggestions?  I do relaxation ex. before and even the "who cares" attitude, let's just get it over with.  Thanks for any suggestions.
 
Your friend, Sunny
14 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Sunny.

Why does a person get white coat syndrome other than they are conditioned to every time they enter the doctors office. I feel that you can become conditioned to do something if you have done it more than once or more likely conditioned to look for it. If you start looking for something and you freeze before you can realize why you are looking then you are left with only the symptoms and that is where your focus is going to go. Especially if it really scares you. Some say it happens from subconscious thought. I'm more inclined to think it might be a random thought that sneaks past the synapses when you are tired. Not strong enough or related enough to be noticed but still strong enough to get a reaction. Fight or flight symptoms are automatic, you don't have to ask them to happen. I'm not even sure if you have to ask them to go away under normal situations. But then panic attacks are not normal situations.

Here for you,
Davit
14 years ago 0 1665 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hi Davit:  Do not know what the root core was, but certainly it was fear of the symptoms which increased into a panic attack.  So that symptoms were a "reason".  But why the symptoms in the first place?  I know I was already fatigued from all the negative thoughts, energies, so my body couldn't cope as well with a symptom of a racing heart - why did it race anyway when I was just sitting there, not even standing, certainly not running around.  That's what would scare me, that the body could do something like that, out of my control.  So of course the negative thought is "what's wrong, what's going on" and the catastrophic thinking starts.  Now, if I have a symptom as described above, I can use the coping relaxation skills I have learned and the positive self talk, and it does not escalate.  I know that I am overtired or stressed and need to rest up again for awhile.  That's when the pampering comes in and be my own best buddy.
I do believe it is important to find out what specific negative core beliefs you have which will be helpful in managing your perceptions and reactions to people and situations, and then in turn, will help heal your "self". 
 
Your friend, Sunny 
14 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Ah but when you fear a lot of things and don't know why then you really do have nothing to fear but fear alone. But If you can find the root of your fear (core belief) then you have something concrete to work on. The thought can be worse than the actual deed if you have an anxiety disorder.

Here for you,
Davit.
14 years ago 0 4027 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Josie,
I read about the definitions of panic and attack, and this condition reminded of the term " you have nothing to fear but fear itself".  As old as that is, is summarizes some of those medical conditions.   It's all to close to home.
14 years ago +1 56 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 1
I know my panic attacks seem to come out of nowhere like described but when I think back to the event sometimes I can see how it could have got started. For instance, I remember the first one I was thinking "I think I had too much coffee and not enough to eat because I feel jittery" and I started to panic and overreact. Also sometimes in stressful situations just thinking something like "This is probably going to give me an attack" is enough to start one.

There have been very few attacks that I haven't been able to trace it back to a thought or an overreaction to a bodily feeling. Since I've been working on biofeedback with a therapist I have been more aware of when I'm tense or not breathing well and it's definitely when my body is in a tense state that I tend to be prone to attacks, so this is helping me.

14 years ago 0 538 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hi All,
This is an interesting topic...I think all my panic attacks were brought on by an event....like a tingle, or a pain, or seeing a spot..even a memory could bring one one.
and whats interesting...I still get those same things...like most of us....but since, like Sunny says , my nerves are not oversensitive....they don't bother me. I'm not hyper-vigilent anymore.
there..my 2 cents...or 2.5 in the USA! ha
Juanita
14 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Tam.

I'm going to add one more thing to this idea of mine. It is how the synapses work. A lot more information enters our brain than needs to or that we can process so a good bit of it is rejected. The synapses have multi ports for information and they do not all open to pass on the information. They pass on related information and reject what you don't need. This is how medication works. It slows down the information flow and some times you get a fuzzy not quite there feeling. I also figure this is where weird dreams come from. The random mixing of unrelated information. 
So to get back to the attacks. And I think this probably does happen more when you are tired or resting because the information flow is already less. Take your tingle. You register the tingle but not why because you are busy doing some thing else. Watching a movie. The tingle is something foreign so your fight or flight system springs into action to check it out. Shutting down all unnecessary information and going into hyper-vigilance. Or in our case over hyper-vigilance since if you have had a panic attack before you have the tendency to have another.
So instead of calmly looking at why you have this tingle you jump up to escape. Two roads here. You took the wrong one is all. 
I'm taking a medication right now that does this to me. (same effect just more intense because it is a side effect of the medication) I can be calmly watching a movie or worse yet sleeping and something will wake me. Often it was so quick that I don't register what it was, it just was. This may be why it is thought there is no reason for the panic. I start to go into panic mode, I start to jump up, but then because I have taught myself to do this, I dig for the reason I'm panicking. (like the ten questions) I either come up with "there is nothing there" or "it is just mixed information" Both of no concern and I can tell it to go away by accepting, First that it happened and second that it is nothing to be concerned with. Fight or flight shuts down. It is still in the background for a while like a top slowly spinning down but it is harmless because I know it is and believe it is. Over time this winding down has got shorter and some times doesn't happen depending on how close the trigger was to one of my previous panic triggers. 
In your case, the tingle is too close to your fear of death in the form of an aneurism. 
So this is why I say there is always a trigger even if it happens so fast you don't register what it was. Or you were asleep and it woke you but didn't register. 
This is just how I see it, how it happens to me, and how I get rid of it. 
I will admit that when I get weird pains the first thing I think of still is that I'm dying. But by questioning them I keep from going into panic mode. 
My therapist said that if attacks are the side effect of a medication (in my case an antibiotic) that it takes medication to get rid of them because they are so strong. And for a while it did take half a valium. But lately I have been able to tell them to go on my own. Still if they won't go I use the valium to slow down the information flow.

Here for you, 
Davit
14 years ago 0 39 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0

Very interesting ideas. I agree with alot that you say Davit. Especially because my last panic attack seemed very "out of nowhere" as I lay watching a movie , completly engaged and attentive to it, then jumped up quickly and started panicking. But what made me suddenly jump up? Well I had a weird tingle in the side of my head and instantly thought that I had an aneurysm that burst. So that is why I jumped up quickly, ran upstairs in full panic mode stirring up many more physical symptoms, convinced I needed medical attention. Because it happened so quickly and there seemed to be no sign or trace of a panic attack only moments before might render an "out of nowhere" argument but the fact that one small, quick paced symptom could cause such catastrophe gives some reason especially when this little symptom has such power to bring on much more (negative thoughts, many more physical symptoms, etc.) And yes for that matter I was very tired that day and forced myself to watch the movie thus giving another precursor to the attack. Perhaps if I wasn`t so tired my mind would`ve been strong to judge that a small tingle couldn`t possibly be fatal. I guess because I didn`t know moments before that the attack would happen makes it a sudden, ``out of the blue``  with no warning attack as many people are saying they have but you are right Davit in saying that that doesn`t mean there wasn`t a reason for it.  

14 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Sunny,
Nice flowers.
Okay but if it is because you are tired is this not when your vigilance is at its lowest, and if you have had panic attacks before you have the potential. So I still say there is a reason even if all that reason is, is that you noticed your heart rate is up. People that have had panic attacks have a greater tendency to associate common, even good feelings with their triggers. It really annoys me when I am calmly going about my business having a good time and it strikes like lightning. So me being me I wanted to know why. Interestingly it doesn't happen when I am working on my lathe. Too much concentration or nothing panicky to associate it with? I did notice over the years that something as simple as a single word could trigger me. Even a pleasant word if some pleasant activity in the past was interrupted by an unpleasant one. Oh and I didn't have to think or say the word, it could be in a song. I'd really like to know why I am more sensitive some days and not others. Now that I can attribute easily to fatigue. Is it possible to have mental fatigue without physical fatigue?
Just cause you can't see something doesn't mean it isn't there. Just like my form of arthritis. It is supposed to be an autoimmune disease, but it turns out there is a very small almost invisible highly mobile bacteria living in the cells my body attacks. Again I have to say, just cause you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. I could be wrong though, My therapist says you can have attacks for no reason at all, just because your body is programmed too. But what programmed it to.

Her for you,
Davit.

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