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14 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Elspeth

I have a lot of trouble with the ''I don't know why I'm doing this" thing, I do know that I am always glad later that I did keep at it. It is probably just a bit of depression. I feel though that you can never regret time spent learning and a better job is going to be a good thing if the economy keeps going the way it is.

Davit.

Ps better but not great. Living again is just around the corner.
14 years ago 0 12 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Dear Davit,
 
   Thank you for replying - yes, I do take some medications, and luckily for me, my family passed down the low tolerance for medication genes.  :)  The medications do help a little, I've noticed, but I guess I'm just super impatient and want to be better now.  :)
 
  I hope you're feeling better and thank you for responding.
 
You are right - I don't feel like I have a right to be happy or have fun.  I won't get into why, but I want to change.  I got the job so that I can try to move out and just have some time to figure out what I want to do, what I like and don't like  ~  however, I'm not really sure why I'm going to school.  I know it will help me get a good job, and teach me a lot, and while I enjoy learning, I don't feel very comfortable in a classroom around a lot of people. 
 
Anyway, thank you again!
14 years ago 0 12 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Dear Cleo,
 
Thank you for posting.  I like how you said that we can't control the panic.  Sometimes it's hard not to try to control it - because I used to feel like accepting it was the same as saying, "well, I'm broken; so I may as well not try."  I've been trying to remind myself that that just isn't true. 
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're saying is that accepting isn't being passive, but rather realizing it will be there and then letting it go and moving forward - like instead of holding on to anxiety like a wild bear on a leash, trying to get it to do what you want it to.  The harder you pull the leash to get that bear where you want it to go, the fiercer that bear is going to get and show you who's boss.  Right?  And once, theoretically, you let the leash go and start focusing on things that make you happy, or need to be done, the easier the anxiety becomes? 
Are you ever afraid that once you let go, it will keep following you (the anxiety, not the bear :)) until you take notice?  Or if you let go, that that will mean losing control?
I know those are probably silly analogies and questions, but sometimes I'm terrified of giving up control - as though that rhetorical bear will attack if I don't keep it under my thumb, so to speak.  I know in my heart that it will be for the better, but convincing my head is another thing entirely. 
 
Thank you all for being here.  You make me think of things that I never thought of. 
 
It's nice to have people who really understand, because it's hard when I try to explain what I'm going through to people who never have experienced this intense fear, because they think (and have told me) "everyone has anxieties.  You're normal in what your feeling.  You just need to get over it."  I used to go very quiet at that point, thinking maybe they were right - until I looked at myself in the mirror and saw my soaked clothes, shaking hands, and flushed face.
 
Hope to hear from you again soon -
-Elspeth-
 
14 years ago 0 538 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hi Elspeth,
I understand exactly what you are saying about not being able to concentrate on what people are saying when you are in a panic episode, at times I would miss alot of what was going on around me because I was so absorbed with what I was feeling and thinking.
What I've learnt here is to be prepared for the increased anxiety...   before it develops into  blind panic...for example...if I know I have to do something that scares me....I use self-talk, question myself on my negative thougths, put positive ones  in my mind. Its harder when its a  situation that we can't control ,but by expecting your fears to rise, saying to yourself..ok, I'll be alright even if I am panicy, then there's a part of your mind that can concentrate on the events around you.
We have to give up trying to control the panic, that way it loses its power. By accepting it as part of ourselves our fear of it goes away, leaving more space in the mind to concentrate on other thigs. Sure, this is easier said than done, but I'm learning it, and I've had an anxiety issue for over 20 years...we are all here for eachother, lets figure it out together.
Cleo 
14 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Elspeth.

I am doing withdrawal from an opiate pain killer and it is really messing me up. I got so long winded here and timed out. So I redid it and in my carelessness deleted it. So here goes, try number three.

A lot of people panic when they are doing something that causes pleasure. I used too. I think it comes from somewhere in the past you or someone or something has convinced you that you have no right to be happy or take the time out to have fun. It could be an attitude of some one important to you or it could be a hold over from the drive to get through school or a job. It is a core belief and subconscious. You will have to change this belief and it may be hard and time consuming depending on how well it is imbedded. But it can be done.

Information overload: Usually the guards at the junction of every synapse discard information we do not need. When they are not working properly to much information goes through or not enough or the wrong stuff. What they allow through depends on feed back. This is what happens when you are panicking talking to some one. You have to get rid of some of the overload and you can do this with Ativan, not a good idea in the long run or by distraction. Some people doodle, some people twirl a pen or rattle the change in there pocket some people look out a window. Some people toe tap. The object is to clear a path for the thoughts you want to get through. The big thing is that it has to be mindless. I used to get tunnel vision and almost black out. I used a number of different distracting skills to clear a path depending on the situation. You can learn this. If the person talking to you is talking constant you may have to raise a hand to stop them so you can concentrate. The raised hand also works as a distraction.

Medication: You may have to take medication for a while to mellow you out enough that you can absorb and install the relaxation and coping skills. This is not a bad thing as long as you realize it is temporary. Don't make the mistake some do of relying on the meds, they will not cure, they only help.

I'm a bit messed this morning because of the withdrawal so if I missed anything just ask again. If you post specific situations people here will tell you what they do in those cases.

Here for you.

Davit.
 
14 years ago 0 12 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Dear Davit,
I think the hard part is remembering in time - because honestly, I do believe I can get better.  What's difficult is finding the trigger, and sometimes there just isn't one.  I've had several times where I'm in my home, alone (I'm most relaxed that way), with no where to go, no one to talk to, nothing whatsoever that should make me panic, and I'm even listening to good, calm music - and yet, I have an attack.  I've tried a lot of calming methods, exercise, anything to distract, but it doesn't always work.  Did you feel that way at first?
I do have a question for you - or anyone, I mean :) - you made a good point when you said that I need the coping/relaxing in place before doing exposure therapy.  The hard thing about this for me is that I've pushed myself hard to go to school and to get a full time job, neither of which I want to quit, though admittedly there are times I've come close.  How do you go about putting those coping skills in place when, in a way, I'm exposing myself to a plethora of fears and can't really back away to develop the skills necessary (does that make sense what I'm asking?)?  Also, have you ever had a hard time understanding people when they talk to you because you're panicking?  If so, how did you manage to do the relaxation and still understand what they were saying?  (again, I know that having the skills in place helps, but right now, I don't think I do . . . yet.)
 
And you're not longwinded, by the way.  :)
 
Thank you for taking the time to post -
-Elspeth-
14 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Elspeth

Your years in school sound like mine only I started way sooner.  I spent a lot of time puking, some times in my hand when I was not allowed to leave the room. The road back to being normal is a long one and not the same for every one. Since panic is part of the fight or flight syndrome there has to be a trigger, it may be so buried it might not seem like it.  It took me years to find mine and when I did it was not at all related to what I thought was causing the attacks.
By the way I was very agoraphobic and probably still am to a certain extent.
If your trigger is some thing that would embarrass you it will be harder to find. You don't need to know it to get better. You have to have relaxation and coping skills in place, then you need to learn how to replace negative thought with positive and then and only then you do exposure therapy.  Finally you go looking for the trigger because then you will be able to handle the attacks that will come when you expose it. And you have to expose it to change it so it never happens again. So can you do the relaxation exercises in the program? Can you do the self talk? Can you find something pleasant to think about in every bad situation? What can you do to distract yourself when you are about to panic? Not all therapists are any good with panic not all of them have a good grasp of it. Mine is very good but I know two who are not. In my blog there is a description of a panic attack. During an attack it is impossible to think straight and so it would be impossible to say what you are thinking. It would also be too late to pick out the trigger. To stop an attack you have to convince yourself there is nothing to be afraid of and to do this you have to let the attack happen so you can look at it and say to yourself that this is silly and there is no reason for it and then and only then will it stop. If you have been agoraphobic for a long time you will have to work on your negative core beliefs. If you truly believe that there is something wrong with you and you can't get better then you won't. If it is really ingrained you may need medication for a while. I truly believe that anyone who really wants to get better can. My therapist would tell you if she was allowed to that two years ago I thought I could never be better. I have been suicidal, and I have been on the psych ward. I have been as bad or worse than anyone I know. Now the only anxiety I ever get is caused by an antibiotic I am taking. And as you can see here it is not bothering me that much. Have faith you will get better here.

Here for you, 

A very long winded 
Davit.

14 years ago 0 12 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
I remember my first debilitating panic attack: I was fifteen minutes into my 7th grade History class, the day after Halloween.  I started feeling sick and sat for an hour in the bathroom, waiting to throw up and trying to talk myself into going back to class.  Unable to stand it, I had my dad pick me up from school and didn't go back for the rest of the year.  Until two months ago, I used to have to take extra clothes with me, because my panic attacks would cause me to sweat so profusely, you could literally wring water out of my clothes.  Of course, I didn't know I was having panic attacks, but rather, I always felt like I was "broken." 
I don't remember ever not being afraid, even when I was a little girl.  I hated school and would do whatever it took to stay home: my doctor got frustrated with me and thought, for a while, that I was "faking" to get through the "tough teenage" years.  I visited specialist after specialist after specialist, but everyone kept trying to tell me I was fine.  Finally, I quit going to doctors and tried counselors instead.  I found it extremely difficult to trust them and would often lie just to get out of their office; let them believe I was progressing when all I wanted to do was pull my hair out, lock myself in my room, and just die.
Finally, at the very end of an eighteen month service stay in another state, I had a "melt down" so severe, I started hyperventilating to the point I almost passed out.
When I returned home, it took me six months to be brave enough to get into a Panic and Anxiety specialist who diagnosed me with Agoraphobia.  I felt so relieved to have a name to my dysfunction after well over a decade!
But that relief has slowly morphed into absolute frustration.  My treatment was mostly "cognitive therapy," which I hate some days.  Sometimes it will take me nearly a half hour to figure out I'm having a panic attack - I'm so used to them, in a sense.  And by then, the last thing I am able to concentrate on is how slow and even I can count my breaths or how to counter my "error thinking."  I would get frustrated when my counselor would ask me what my thoughts were that triggered the attack and what I was thinking during the attack.  All fine and dandy except my mind is racing so fast, all I see or "think" is a rush of color.  Come to find out, I have ADD also, so concentrating is already difficult without anxiety to fuel a scattered mind.
Again, I've stopped counseling and decided to try the internet.  I was so happy when reading lesson one; for once, I found somewhere that said there didn't necessarily have to be a "trigger" in order to have an anxiety attack.  Finally!  I can't wait to start these lessons, though I'm still a little wary about the cognitive part.
Is there anyone out there who's been frustrated with cognitive therapy?  I've been doing it well over a year and a half and really struggle with it.  How have you been able to make it work for you? 
I want to get better and not be afraid anymore, so I'm willing to keep trying cognitive therapy because so many people say it works.  I just need help figuring out how.

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