Well Foxman I think I understand what you are saying but I and I think many of my friends will disagree. A very close friend of mine was so bad when he came into the program that he was injecting alcohol into his eyes. He just celebrated 35 years recently. Meeting don't work for everyone, but not everyone follows all the suggested steps either. Those I have seen in my short couple years in my 12 step program that keep working at the steps and keep going to meetings on't drink - those that stop going frequently go back to drinking.