I don't think you can trust your heart... you'll end up getting hurt. You need to trust your mind. Trust the facts. Trust what you know.

rc, I did not want to be forceful. my husband and I work in accounting so we know the consequences of debt gone out of control. We also know how families are often torn apart by the material needs getting in the way. Your wife and you both worked !! One was not more important than the other, so both are responsible for the budget. And rest and family time were just as important as work. Would two or three employments have allowed to to have time to be with your family and to get proper rest to recuperate? Becareful because there seems another trap here... stay-at-home could have found part time evening work and left you as part time stay at home dad... RC, it is never too late to sit down with a cup of tea and say what needs to be released. Finances, home, work, all this aside... can you talk to your wife? no arguements, no raised voices, no manipulations, and ... no sex... can you and her talk? can you guys remember why you got married? why you made promises and comittments to each other? can you guys look into each other's eyes eyes and say I LOVE YOU? see, through all my ups and downs, through all our challenges and phases my husband and I have always been and will always be best friends. There is love behind everything; not lust, not desire, not security... love. We are two separate people. We cannot know, we cannot understand what the other lives. We share a common need - the need to be with each other. We do not compromise; someone wins and someone loses on an issue. We do not live half way, both never being satisfied with an outcome. So we are both lucky to be together. That is why I was a bit rough with my post. I wanted to push a bit. There is always that doubt that travels with the dark toughts; I might be crazy, I might be wrong. I am lucky that my husband is stong enough to let me wander these paths and remind me tirelessly that he loves all of me, good, bad, pretty and ugly. I wanted you to see that even depressed and mierable you are providing for your family and you need your wife as your equal and partner. good night.

Thank-you so much, ladies. I feel much better just knowing that you all care enough to post, and it is so nice to read something positive meant for me! Danielle; you're absolutely right, we are partners that is why i feel it is not right to "control" her spending. The time and trouble she spent caring for our kids is worth more than anything I could ever earn. As for talking to her about it, just a repeat of the last tim wildcat;Since she started working part-time after several years of stay-at-home mom, she feels it's my fault for not getting a second job and providing everthing wanted. I'm sorry if she is like a spoiled teen, but i am responsible for making the adult into that. What i'm trying to say is i feel very bad doing what i need to do. I can't help thinking what a lucky man your husband is. Confused; Thanx for your thoughts. you're right to be upset about his lack of care for your 2 year-olds health. That scares me. A father is responsible for the health and happiness of his kids as much as there mom. You are right when you wrote that when it comes to a partners happiness and needs "some people just don't think that way". Why we are attracted to them is a mystery.Take care, sweatheart....rcguy

Hi rcguy I don't think that it's abusive and controlling at all -- it's drastic, but, as wildcat says, your wife has clearly demonstrated that she has no self-control or sense of responsibility and someone in a family has to exercise a certain amount of both of those. If you've talked with her already about limits, budget, etc, and come to an agreement that she has since disregarded, then taking away the credit cards is an unpleasant but necessary consequence. If you haven't had that talk yet, I think that it's important to at least give her a chance to show that she can be responsible if she knows that she has to. Short leash, though, since your finances have already taken such a beating, and check in weekly on how she's faring. I hear you about the fear of conflict, though. You can read in other posts that I was in an abusive relationship as well. Just the thought of upsetting him would send my anxiety sky-rocketing. I don't suppose that I'm the best adviser here, since I ended up leaving rather than mending the marriage. I tried to be assertive and stand up for myself, and if the issue was something I had complete control over, I could be calmly assertive and adamant and weather the storm. But the rest of the time... he could be utterly ruthless, and I had no idea how to deal with that. As an example, I'd signed up for a 2 day course for my work -- really important to me. I'd still be able to drop the girls off and pick them up from daycare, but he'd have to be the "on-call" parent for the first time. He wasn't happy with this, but I stood firm and said that the odds of something happening were low, and so he agreed. As it happened, our 2 year old had an asthma attack the afternoon of the first day. The daycare called me, and I called him. He was ticked, but I stood firm and reiterated how important the course was for my work. So he went. When I got home a few hours later, her lips and fingernails were blue from lack of oxygen -- he said that he couldn't figure out how to use the ventilator and how was he supposed to know what symptoms to watch out for? The next 2 days I spent in the hospital with my baby in an oxygen tent. Saying that he was deliberate in his inactivity sounds ridiculous -- he said that it all just showed how incompetent he was at parenting. Very remorseful. Marriage is always a balance of needs, but where does it cross the line? Passive isn't necessarily a bad thing, but your needs have been trampled, your dreams ignored. Are you so passive that you don't state your needs, desires, hopes and dreams? If you've told her and she deliberately disregards them, well, you've got some decisions to make. If you've never told her, perhaps she truly doesn't know how deeply unhappy you are. You'd think that she'd pick up on some of your needs over the years, or ask you, but some people just don't think that way. Good to hear that your bank was helpful about another mortgage (even if it would have been better not to have needed the second mortgage). take care

hi rc, yes it is abusif and controlling. [b]BUT[/b]you need to do it. If you wife has had free reign with the cards with no consequences she is reacting like any spoiled teenager when you tell then go to work for their leasures. I have two examples of family budgets that have been working for a while... 1- Mine. My husband and I both work. he makes a bit more than I do so we have split the family bills half - half. I take care of my meds and leasure, he spends on restaurants (cooking is his responsibility and take-out is his luxery) and games/movies. Credit is under one name who is responsible for buying and paying. I work for a big company with benefits and a pension plan so for now I am the one saving up but my husband has things to help the kids when they reach post secondary studies... see half - half. We rarely have money arguement because everything is clear and we share the reponsibility. 2-my husband's brother. His wife is stay-at-home mom with a 2.5 yr old. His money goes to pay all the bills and necessities including meds. What is left is split half-half. so any frills and credit is the responsibility of the one who spent the money. Clothing to replace damaged pieces is a necessity in both households, but a nice new somthing for the spring is "luxery" (we save a lot my getting big names at our local church bazzars and thrift shops). Friday movie is a treat one or the other decides to pay for the two. This month's case of 12 beer was my treat for us ... with the nice sausages we had for Friday night we shared a bottle ... RC, your wife will retaliate like any spoiled thing will. Kicking and fighting, temper tantrums, moping, think of anyother phases 2 to 16 year olds go through. If you are the responsible "adult" she will have to be taught by you that the consequence of spending is debt. She will have to be taught that adults have to make choises and be good consumers in our consume-based society. Also, she will have to be taught that the love you share is not directly related to amount you spend. So are you being abusive and controlling? To a well taught adult not really. To a spoiled youngster "like totally you know". But if your name is on the credit you are the one responsible for the debts, so you have every right to put a ceiling on the expenses. according to me ;)

Rcguy, Obviously, being a or the only provider in your home gives you a sense of accomplishment but it seems to unravel on the home front because as you said you have nothing to show for it. You make good money but are always broke. The challenges you face with your wife aren't uncommon as many couples struggle with finances and don't forget it is one of the biggest contributors to divorce. Exploring how you got there may be of help to you. Your wife may say that it's controlling to set limits but obviously judging from your post you have no choice as she's been unable to control it on her own. Instead of imposing severe restrictions, working on a budget together may be more constructive. Remember to include allocations for fixed expenses such as mortgages, bills, debt repayment and savings as well as spending money for you & for her. You may also want to consider coming up with a long-term goal together. Something you can both work and save towards like a trip. Once you've set the budget, exploring how one or both of you can bring in extra income can also be helpful. In preparation for this talk with your wife, you may want to search the forums for tips on assertive communication. Making sure your needs in addition to her needs being met is not abusive. It's part of being partners. Hope this helps. Danielle, Bilingual Health Educator

Hi group; For many years whenever i had a depressive episode, i felt that i needed to leave my wife. This scared me, because i just couldn't explain why. Was it repressed anger, or guilt or mayby low self-esteme? I know i am a passive person, i fear any kind of conflict, and she knows how to take advantage of this. I gave up all my hopes and dreams long ago and tried to follow hers. I have nothing that i can say is my own, no car,boat,snowboard,golf clubs,"toys"......even our house belongs to the bank because i have 2 mortgages. I just can't believe i make good money and i'm always broke and in debt. A therapist i see says i need to take away her credit cards and take control of the banking. My wife says that is abusive and controlling, is she right? Can anyone relate to my relationship with my wife?...rcguy