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9 years ago 0 219 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Davit,

Since I have been struggling with the negative worry thoughts I'm glad the triangle was mentioned. Its the same concept as this program, but gave me another way to look at it. I'm a visual and auditory learner, so it helps to have a picture in my mind. It's still changing the thought process. After reading your post before the current one, it starting pulling it together in my mind. I have been waking up every few nights to panic attacks and this pretty much summed it up for me along with my current read "who's pulling your strings" that Red mentioned. 

It hasn't been easy to replace the negative worry thoughts and I am working hard on accomplishing that. I'm going to say I'm doing a great job so far because of how long I went without CBT. I'm proud of how much I've accomplished with this program in the few months I've been here working on it. I have over 40 + years of core beliefs, negative worry thoughts, etc. to work on and retrain my way of thinking with positive thoughts and replacement thoughts to counter my mistaken beliefs. I can do that. It might take more time, but I am determined to be panic free.
 
 
9 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
JayDee

The program does every thing a person needs to change thought patterns except explain why and that could be because why seems to be confusing. The triangle is a new concept to most people and actually isn't necessary to know but if you can understand it, it is an eye opener to how the brain actually works. Even in the past doctors knew the past had an effect on the present but didn't know why. They thought it was hereditary and you had no choice. In fact it is a learned experience, the only thing inherited is the tendency. Two children can have the same tendency but with different experiences to build core beliefs can be very different in adult life. 
My brother deals with his anxiety by passing it on to others. His wife deals with it by not paying attention. Not recording it in both cases. 

I only post the triangle for information and in no way is it meant to replace the step by step program. Consistent replacing negative thoughts with positives works. It just isn't that easy to do.

Davit
9 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
JayDee

Yes, instead of allowing memory to supply the answer based on previous experience you want to break in and supply the answer you want. This is hard because so much of what you do is subconscious and it happens so fast. But if you do and if you do it often enough it buries the negative you have been using with a positive. In time it becomes the normal and you start to wonder if it was ever there. This is a very good feeling because it means you no longer need to use coping skills because there is nothing to use them against. Life becomes normal again. You also get a change of personality with this, automatically thinking positive so there are no negatives to counter. You will feel so much better and like yourself so much more. You will also be more confident which helps to keep the negatives away.
So yes in theory it is simple. Counter every negative your memory offers with a positive which will cycle back to memory and in time becomes the answer memory offers. This is changing thought Patterns. This is CBT. But remember memory needs help and direction because it will record and offer what ever you give it. Beware of negative situations because it will record them in associated memory where they can colour your attitude and show up in random thought. (dreams) Panic at night usually comes from these thoughts. Often not making sense but being scary just the same. If you look hard enough you will find some basis for them off to the side of your previous activity. Eg. news, movie, coffee with friends or just a conversation with some one negative. Some thing you didn't even pay much attention to but memory did and filed it in associated memory as a learning experience to be used for imagination or when there is no other answer.
Nothing you do or think happens without your direction so make your direction what you want it to be. This is why "want to" verses "have to" works with repetition. It is replacing a negative with a positive in memory.

Davit

Ps. This is replacing a thought from the second corner before it can get to the third and influence the first and second since all three work together.
9 years ago 0 219 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Davit,

I responded to this yesterday evening but see it isn't showing. It read easier than this response. I think I get the just of it though. I've drawn a triangle on paper and labeled it accordingly. I need to change the cycle by replacing the thought with a positive instead of a negative for the thoughts/cycles that cause anxiety/panic? 
9 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Red.

The last post was rather long and I got logged out and had to log back in and find it and post it.
It may have spelling and grammar mistakes.

I'm glad I found how to do this because repeating it is never the same.

Davit
9 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Please read proceeding post first.

A note on this. Positive thought is short lived because it is not necessary for survival even though it is necessary for happiness. Negative thought stays around till it is not needed because all survival skills are negative. They normally work silently in the background protecting us even when we are feeling positive. They just aren't noticed. This is by choice and is learned as is panic. It works like this. Normal anxiety passes through memory where memory decides it is a concern but not necessary to act on so it picks a positive answer to form the action. Like this: crossing traffic your mind picks out all the possibilities and decides no action is necessary if none is. But if a car is coming it goes through all the possibilities and decides on an appropriate action. Now setting triggers aside for a moment. With an anxiety disorder a person looks at all the possibilities and picks out what your mind considers appropriate, based on core beliefs, attitude, personality or mood. These are all learned things installed in memory. Remember the triangle. All actions, reactions or thoughts cycle back to memory for future reference. So a trigger calls for a negative answer because they usually want a survival skill which your mind disregards if it isn't appropriate. There is that word again, appropriate, not necessarily right if you have learned it is appropriate, it can be wrong and still be appropriate. This is where core beliefs come in. Core beliefs dictate how you think based on past experience. Repetition keeps them the same in memory instead of updating them. And in this way you can continue to get the same reaction. In this case if a trigger causes panic it will because memory thinks that is what you want because you have not told it otherwise. It can only pick from what it has stored. Memory can't think, you have to tell it too. So CBT works by changing the commands so memory has a positive choice besides the negative one to choose from. Repetition reinforces the positive without you losing necessary survival skills. They will still override the positive in a life threatening situation just not in one that isn't such as normal anxiety that we all get. This is conditioning and has to be installed (learned and repeated so it has priority and become appropriate) Once learned it stays there and has priority unless you change it. Memory can't change it, you have to tell it to. It helps if you know what caused a thought (trigger) to call for a negative action. Problem is that if it is a big enough trauma you may block it for sanities sake and not be able to find it. (ptsd) The good news is that you don't need to know it to change how you react to triggers. They don't go away, how you react to them does. And this has to be learned and installed in memory. 
Now the problem I have with exposure is that if it causes a negative thought each time it is done you will be installing a negative answer in memory, but if you can think positive while doing exposure you will install a positive. This is why you need self checks and to stop before the exposure has you thinking negative which can happen even before you start.
Don't do exposure unless you can do it in a positive manner. This is my thought and many experts think that if you do exposure enough you will come to disregard the negative reaction. The triangle says otherwise. It says you will install how you feel because that is it's only choice. You have to give it another choice. I did not do exposure till I could actually believe I had another choice other than fear. Then exposure reinforced the positive reaction by cycling it back to memory for future reference. With a good solid installation the negative is still a choice but is no longer the appropriate choice and in this case also the right one. Pretty simple right! Unfortunately we have a lot of things keeping us who we are so changing thought patterns is not as easy as we would like it to be. It takes time but once done they stay there unless we change back. These are set backs and are normal if they happen. All a set back tells us is that something still has to be changed. 
Now relaxation and coping skills work faster but stay coping skills for ever, they just make it easier to change thought patterns so are still necessary. You just don't want to stop there because that is only half way. With a change of thought patterns they are not necessary even though you never lose them and will use them during periods of high stress or trauma, just not to the extent you did before changing thought patterns.

Davit

9 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Jay Dee

There are a number of different names for the triangle and a few different interpretations. The one I posted here a while ago is the most important one because it explains why anxiety happens and why it accelerates into panic.

I had it on for avatar for a while. If you draw a triangle, the left corner is the trigger/thought/sight/etc. The top corner is memory and the right corner is action/reaction/additional thought. The three work together with the right corner being the action to the other two. It also updates the second corner which is memory to keep you current  and dictates to some extent the next thought or plan in the left corner. They have no choice but to work together.
So it works like this and keep in mind that this all happens very fast and for the most part subconscious so that it appears that it just happens. Nothing just happens. The only reason we can do anything is because how to is in memory. which is why we have to learn things. Keep this in mind for when I get to core beliefs.
So you have a thought or trigger (left corner) that thought goes to memory to see how to do it or what you did last time or if it is new to associated memory to get the appropriate answer, which it forwards on to the third corner which is the action reaction or just plain thought corner. What ever you do here goes back to memory for future reference. You will use this until you bury it with something else. If you do something often enough you will use memory without much searching for choices. Yes there is more than one choice in memory and it uses the most appropriate one. Not necessarily the right one as can be seen in panic. During a fear your mind quickly runs through the choices and decides whether to run or stand and fight or to try to hide. Or it just goes blank searching for an answer. (this is why you can't make a decision) This is why if you accept panic you have then made a decision and you can move on. During panic your mind cycles round just two corners Top and right. Like having a song stuck in your head. You have to break the cycle by making a conscious change of thought from the one memory is giving you so that the action/reaction will be different and again feed back to the first corner as a positive instead of a negative which would keep the action going round and round.

Core beliefs, attitude and emotions dictate what answers memory uses for choice. Associated memory is what it uses to make decisions on something new or foreign, What we call guessing which is also where imagination comes from and creativity.
Unfortunately they can all contribute to anxiety.

Davit.
9 years ago 0 219 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Red,

Thank you for the welcome.
 
I am almost positive that is the book I read years ago, that I could not remember the name of, that has the phrase "Stop the thought" followed by a positive affirmation or such. I mentioned it on another post on here. Or it could have been another written by John Townsend as I read many books back then as well. I did go to amazon and got one of the books you mentioned by Harriet B. Braiker. I will have to go back and purchase the book Boundaries. It was very helpful when I was first diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder many years ago. 
 
 



9 years ago 0 2508 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hi Jay Dee, and welcome to the support group..
 
Thanks for the heads up on the books. There is another one I forgot to mention that I read a long while back that I need to read again now that I am aware of my negative core beliefs in relation to my People Pleasing behavior which I now know and realize is really a very self destructive behavior pattern. It is a pattern and negative core belief that I want to change and replay with a new positive core belief.
 
This is where the book Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life..written by Henry Cloud, and John Townsend comes into play. It will help me become stronger in my resolve to change my patterns of self destructive behavior..... 
 
You are so right when you say Knowledge is Power and with this knowledge I belief we can change ourselves and live happy and fulfilling lives..I am looking forward to reading more from you as you go through this process of learning. I think by sharing we are helping ourselves and in turn helping others..
 
Enjoy your books:)
 
Red...
 
9 years ago 0 219 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Red,

Before I log off this site and go to Amazon to look for books you mentioned I would like to suggest one I have been working through. It is titled Asserting yourself by Sharon and Gordan Bower. I am a people pleaser and just read about having someone pulling my strings in the CBT for Dummies which I just purchased in ebook from amazon. The Asserting yourself book does not come in ebook format, but is available in paperback and arrives in a few days via postal, in my opinion is better because I am able to write in the book when I come upon a worksheet or question. I am curious as to this triangle concept. Knowledge is power and I am seeking both for this disorder to overcome it.

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