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stopped the panic. turned in positive Energy


10 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Thank you.

It is good to know my experience might help.

If you post in the wrong place the moderators will move it and let you know so no problem there. 

It is always assumed and I shouldn't do it that you have checked out any physical reason for your symptoms. You see when people first get attacks they think it is physical because they don't know about panic attacks. You may have noticed the added information has added anxiety. It usually does. And this added anxiety takes things you normally don't notice and magnifies them. And absolutely anything can be a symptom. Still, bug your doctor if you are at all concerned. The thought that it is just stress could cover up something real. Because of the association between panic and fight or flight any survival techniques can be symptoms. Tightening of muscles, clenching teeth. twitching muscle, very shallow slow breathing to the point of dizzy. Imagine yourself as a mouse watching a cat go by. Try progressive muscle relaxation, it is in the program. It makes a good distraction too. 

You are at the point where we lose people. Knowing it is going to take time and be work and there will be times when it doesn't seem worth it makes just taking the pills seem like the better route. Easier yes but not better because they will never be okay without the pills where as unless you have something damaged so you can't produce the chemicals you need you will usually be able to stop any meds you are taking. According to my therapist and good friend and source of information not being able to produce the chemicals you need is very rare. 

There are so many degrees of panic and anxiety it is impossible for anyone but a therapist to tell where you fall. So it is impossible to tell if your stress level is such that you need the odd pill or if you need to take an SSRI. If you think you can do without pills and do CBT only it would be best, but not the only route. I did it without a lot of pills but did use a mood stabilizer when thinking was getting foggy.  I'm glad I never gave up. (cried a lot when it was bad) Because if I had of just took the pills I would only have half a life, I'd be a robot making the motions. Life is good without panic attacks and it is attainable. So please stick with it. It makes my struggle worth while.

Davit

Ps. Your new symptoms are classic in that your body is trying to distract you from thinking on your trigger. But you should get it checked anyway. Also when those don't work, you will find some others. Sorry, I never said it would be easy just that it works. Knowing what is happening helps reduce the fear.
10 years ago 0 85 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Davit I really appreciate your responses. It makes me feel not so alone. Thank you

Can I ask a question? So today I'm having these strange new sensations. My panic symptoms have always been palpitations and a tight chest, dizziness and numbness in my exremeties. For some reason today i have the chest tightness plus an all round feeling of heaviness especially in my head and face and a strange tightness across my upper back. Do symptoms change like this and has anyone had these before?

Another thing, given that I am new I am sure that I am posting in the right place???
10 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Naa

5-htp is claimed to increase serotonin levels but only in those who are low in serotonin. Which is why it does nothing for me. I was low in dopamine instead. You can get Tryptophan from a cup of hot milk. Heating milk releases it. Grandma knew hot milk made her sleep but not why. It works even better if you are on an SSRI. But since there are no tests to tell if it is necessary it is trial and error. If it works for you then it is advised that to avoid rebound you take the smallest dose you can and be consistent. But this is true of any medication. 

Carbs: I would start at the point you were at and slowly reduce it till you start to panic and see if the shakes go away. Do you know what leaky gut syndrome is? It is when larger than normal particles pass through the intestinal wall into the blood stream. Sugar is an especially bad culprit. 

There is a simple thing consisting of two words you should use every time you do something you don't want to or something that is hard. "I won". Why? Always end every thought with something positive. Because last thoughts that go into memory are the first available when you have to do it again. Do you want to do it again thinking how hard it was or that you did it and can do it again. Just a little positive but they add up in time.

Davit
10 years ago 0 85 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
So I ate some carbs yesterday and I didnt wake up with panic today although I had the shakes. I also took some 5-htp. Do you have any experience with that?
My morning took a turn for the worse when I worked myself into a high anxiety state by getting all worked up about driving my daughter to camp. It was one long hour of driving. In the end I did it but I felt drained all day. Anyone have any tips on how to quiet my mind???
10 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Naa

Two. I increased Calcium because it is one of the things necessary for those guards to work properly. But that is me only, I have arthritis so I waste more calcium than normal. The other thing was Lemon Balm tea. I grow it myself so I know it is fresh and that it doesn't have a lot of stuff in it that isn't necessary. It works real well for when I am so stressed I can't eat or when I can't sleep. It takes 15 minutes to work and works much like the benzo's with out rebound. Rebound is when panic comes back when the med wears off. My Doctor actually recommended it. The other thing is that after about three in the afternoon I drink only Ginger Mint for tea. (tetly's) I have to order it special. 

There is one more useful piece of information called a thought triangle that explains how memory controls our actions and it's part in panic. But I think it can wait for a bit. I actually did CBT with out knowing about it. But it is an eye opener. There are two other things that fall into the why category but they need to wait till you have relaxation and coping. Too much at once is going to be confusing. 

Personally I think your body will scavenge what the brain needs so if your diet makes you feel better then do it. Self esteem is very important to the controlling of core beliefs. Another bit of information that falls into the why it happens.

Yes there is a lot more to this than one would think. So for those that say just get with the program, unless they mean this one ignore them. No one who has not gone through this can truly understand it. There are a lot of us. A lot of people don't even know they have this condition till it blows up. You can not imagine how much I missed out on because of it. 
I was the worst case of Panic Disorder in my area according to my Therapist. I'm now the best recovered.  CBT works.

Davit. 

I'm 62 and have had anxiety and panic control my whole life. Not anymore.


10 years ago 0 85 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Wow Davit
Thanks for the information. It is a lot to ingest but it is very very helpful. No one has ever explained this in those terms before. Thanks! 
Clearly my low carb diet is not helping my condition. Did you use any herbal remedies during recovery? Can you share some of the things that helped you?
10 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Naa

The brain runs on sugar in some form. Too much or too little has an effect. 

Information overload. This is a major cause for panic and why Benzodiazapenes work. In your brain is an area like a freight yard for trains. It is a sorting area referred to as a cluster. There are other areas but this is the main one. Information gathered through the senses passes through a number of receptors before getting to the brain. It doesn't go there in a straight line. Think of these receptors as being shaped like your hand with information going in your finger and exiting your wrist to be passed on to the next. Each one of these fingers has a gate or guard that is operated by previous memory. It controls whether what is at the gate is important and should be passed on. During heightened anxiety more are open and more information is passed on. Caffeine opens them, Benzo's close them. This is why the temporary need to stop coffee. It is temporary. If too many open it creates confusion. You literally are pulled too many directions trying to decide what to do. Usually in an attack it is run, but where. Where do you run when you don't know what is getting you. So your body increases these normal defence mechanisms referred to as panic symptoms. You will have noticed panic has a limited time it will stay panic but not a limited amount of times it can happen. 
So since this is all based on previous memory and everything becomes previous memory you want to build useful positive memories that will control these gates. See what I mean, simple in theory but not so simple to do. We are still at, "change negative to positive". In actuality CBT is exactly what its components say it is. A changing of thought processes so you can do this. But if you are in a heightened anxious state all the time you can well imagine what you are putting in your memory and what you will draw on. Positive breeds positive. Like being pregnant. You start off small and months later you get a surprise that is pleasant or not depending on your attitude, because negative also breeds negative. 
An important thing to remember is that all survival skills are negative so you need to be able to draw on them in a crisis. The thing you aim for is to keep everything from becoming a crisis. Balance in other words. Before stepping off the curb you want to be able to say what if that car speeds up, what if he doesn't see me. Okay so the guards open up and let information through so you can make a decision but when it is made they close again because you no longer need that much information. Not so in an attack. If this makes sense then we can move on to why it happens but there is no rush. You will not cure this overnight but information is power. And you can not fix something if you don't know why it is broke. 

As for addiction. Addiction is chemical where a drug replaces another so you need it. Dependence is where you need a drug because your mind can't work without it. Teaching your mind to work gets rid of the dependence. There is a difference and this is why as you progress you find you don't need the drug and are actually not taking it. But this brings rise to fear and panic so for a year or more you will carry it with you and not use it. Just in case. And this just in case prevents panic. 

Benzo's are not addictive where alcohol and drugs like T3's are. You become dependant on them if you don't have something to replace them.

Another thing is that right now you are using up seratonin in a big way. It is referred to as the happy drug but is in fact a chemical necessary for clear thoughts. When it works it works well but when it doesn't it is hell. SSRIs are something that will be suggested to you at some time.

Going outside to work for a bit.

Davit.
10 years ago 0 85 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hi David:
I really appreciate your taking time to respond. It took a very long time for me to take the 1/4 xanax that I take now when I am really anxious. I fear addiction and the withdrawal effects. (The net is a wonderful resource but can be a scary place sometimes)
 
Please explain what you mean by information overload and open receptors???
 
I have eliminated coffee and black tea completely (I miss it) and drink camomille tea instead. It does help to calm me down. I was doing ok - had low level anxiety every day but I was beginning to get this cbt thing. Then I had a set back. I think I am perimenopausal but my doc says no (Im 43). I also started a low carb diet a couple of weeks ago. Does that have an effect on anxiety levels?
 
10 years ago 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Naa

Until you get a handle on this everything new is going to cause panic. What I am about to tell you is personal experience because it is the only way I'm allowed to say it here. My drug of choice was valium and I still use it but very very seldom. You can not do CBT without a clear head so you know what to do, just keep it as low as possible. The risk of dependance is slim as long as you are doing something to replace it and that something is CBT. What will happen when you get better is you will forget to take all your other helpers because you won't need them. For now though you probably need them. My therapist would tell you, one thing at a time, you can do withdrawal later, and you can do it. I had to withdraw from four years of Ativan addiction that I had before I knew there was such a thing as CBT. I have no dependance and Ativan is the hardest drug to get off. 

Right now what you have is called information overload and it is caused by having to many receptors that are normally closed open. I'll explain later. The pills close some of these. The choice is yours. In future you will learn how to close them on your own. 

I will be in and out all day but I will answer any questions you have as best as I can.

Davit. 

Ps. if you can for now, cut the caffeine and switch to teas like Lemon Balm (very calming) and ginger mint. I can drink coffee again but could not during my worst.
10 years ago 0 85 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Hi:I am having  a really hard time right now. I am trying the breathing exercise, trying to distract myself but nothing seems to be working. The fear is so so great :(
 

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