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9 years ago 0 +0 / -0 55

Foxman,

You bring up a very interesting point. I agree there are many different levels or severities of addiction/dependency. Where is that line, the one that separates the alcohol abuser from the real-alcoholic? How does one know when they have crossed it? I know for me, all logical/rational thinking begins to erode with my first drink and further deteriorates with each successive drink. Could that put me over the line?

Jakelad,

I commend you for turning your life around and finding true happiness, to have 9 months of sobriety behind you is a great accomplishment! Do you attribute any of your ability to remain sober to your will-power? If no, then what prevents you from pouring up that next drink of rye?

Swig

9 years ago 0 +0 / -0 315

AHC is a tool per say in your tool box of recovery. Add as many things as you can to it and hopefully you will stay sober. Easier softer way, that is an alcoholic thinking he or she can do it on their own through moderation or even trying AF. Sadly they will soon drink again. Look at your self, how may times did your own will power let you down? As for recruiting, if Foxman did that he was wrong to. Our traditions state attraction rather then promotion. 9 months AF for me, my life is so much better. Don't lie cheat steel. I don't wake up with regret I actually want to live. Who wouldn't be attracted to a good life? I have to thank all my tools I have for this life.

9 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1562

Sorry actually its other way around.

For an alcohol abuser who has not crossed the line, perhaps not. But if one is a real-alcoholic perhaps.

This is because of the peculiar mental twist these group of people have developed that precedes the first drink. In my own life, hen the counsellor wanted me to stay off booze for a month, I did it for 3 weeks and on the 4th week, for a silly body ache, which could have been relieved by tylanol, my mind opted for a 6 pack of beer. The alcoholic twisted mind will win out. This is the blind spot that needs to be addressed.

9 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1562

Out of curiosity, do you consider AHC an "Easier, Soft Way" ?

For an alcohol abuser who has not crossed the line, perhaps. But if one is a real-alcoholic perhaps not. But then we never tell someone that he/she is an alcoholic, just offer some guidlines, if they wish to hear. Thats why its important we share our experience, strength and hope. What we were, what happened, how we are now, in a general way.

I suggested you read the book so you could have a better understanding of various categories of drinkers. So you can have an idea were I am coming from thats all.

9 years ago 0 +0 / -0 55

Foxman,

What I'm saying is this; some of your postings and references to the big book, look (to me) like a recruitment efforts.

look at the causes and conditions that leds us back to the bottle. In AA we call it the "isms" that manifest in people in different forms and level. Depending on how badly we are mangled, you may want to opt for the right solution

I strongly recommend people reading the book Alcoholics Anonymous and understand the powerlessnes and un-managiablity concepts.

in AA we just do that, we accept the condition that we can't handle it, mentally and physically and then put forth a rigorous course of action, and we get the power to live a life without a need for external substance.

I'm not saying you are directly putting down AHC, but implying we are powerless or can't handle it mentally and physically, directly contradicts the reason many people come here. Correct me if I am mistaken, but the first two We Don't Do's of AA are:

1. Furnish initial motivation for alcoholics to recover.

2. Solicit members.

Out of curiosity, do you consider AHC an "Easier, Soft Way" ?

Swig

9 years ago 0 +0 / -0 315

Funny how the ego of this alcoholic comes charging back. When people challenge my belief directly of indirectly I am too quick to challenge. For that I am sorry. I have to "live and let live" as my sponsor says "allow people to make their own mistakes". For me AA has worked so far. I have to work my program and allow others to work theirs.

9 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1562

Swig

I am not sure where you are coming from. I never ever put down AHC. Infact I am so greatful for this forum. I am just trying to highlight various categories of alcohol dependency in people. There are the normal drinkers who take a drink or two and they don't have to worry about it at all. There is this Hard Drinkers/Abusers of alcohol who depending on where they are could quit/moderate on their own with little therapy. And there is this different breed of drinkers who the book classifies as "real alcoholics" and those are the people we are trying to help.

Let me ask you direct. Have you seen me respond to your post recently? Most of the time I welcome the new-comer and thats it. Then they are gone anyways. And those few who stick around, If I get a sense that they are not receptive, I simply let go of them.

I have a very simple solution for those who don't like the quotes from the big book. Ignore my posts. As simple as that. BTW, this thread was started by TS hence I responded to her post.

9 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1009

Hi Swig,

Thanks for calling time :) What I meant was I'll refrain from the exchange. You are absolutely correct and I felt the same way in that the exchange was counterproductive to the greater good of supporting the immediate issue and that's the unconditional support of the problem. I appreciate the positive sentiments as well. Thank you.

On that note, Foxman, I would say Swig is right. Let's agree to disagree. And while I cannot relate to your example of the inmate who took 19 years to finally find sobriety using the 12 step program your post I did help me realize a fundamental difference between my own philosophy of recovery and that of AA. You see, I believe the individual has the capacity to change through their own volition using their innate intelligence, free-will, self-understanding and has the internal resources to evoke positive and lasting change. This is fundamentally opposite to the program you promote, which assigns the failure of sobriety to the individual and not the program itself because the individual did not follow the steps and work them. That seems somewhat dismissive and judgmental to me, however, that is a personal observation based on what I read.

Thanks swig!

All the best,

Dave

9 years ago 0 +0 / -0 55

Dave, Please don't refrain from posting. I'm sure many here will agree with me in that your contributions here are invaluable. As I indicated previously, I simply rather see people post positive and encouraging support, rather than get in to confrontational exchanges. Jakelad Foxman, I, and others here, have chosen not to take the AA route for various reasons and that's what brought me here. When you constantly refer to the Big Book and tell people they are powerless, incapable, etc, you are basically saying that AHC is in-effective and AA is the only true way to sobriety. It begs the question; Why are you here? Swig

9 years ago 0 +0 / -0 1009

I agree Swig, I'll refrain from posting.......

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